S2E26 - Where Should I Buy? The One Number We'd Bet On Every Time

[00:00:00] Imti: Where should I buy? It's the number one question we get every single day from first home buyers and first time investors. And with more than 15,000 suburbs across Australia, and access to even more research than ever, it's such a complicated question to answer. There's over 150 data points that most buyer's agents will use to slice and dice a property, and when you add those things together, there's thousands of variables to how to answer that question.

But if Pete and I were thrown into the jungle, and we only had one number that to make our decision on, we actually agreed that we would keep the same one. And this is for both first home buyers who may wanna make their property an investment in the future, or even just first time investors. It's probably not the one you would expect. It's not historical capital growth, it's not rental yield, it's not population growth. It's none of those, and those are the numbers that are constantly thrown at people as the most important thing. The data point we would pick if we had to start from scratch and we had to pull apart the 150 plus that are there, it's actually owner-occupier percentage, which isn't talked about that much, isn't that sexy, and is actually really easy to find. Now, it doesn't mean that you just find an owner-occupier percentage and then that's it. But it's all the things that flow into it and underpin that number, because essentially it's all about do people want to live here? Do they want to own here? And will there be another buyer for the property who feels the exact same way? And we both believe that that's what actually drives capital growth over time, does someone want to live here long term and make it their home? So what we're gonna do today is break down owner-occupier percentage, what is it, why is it important, how to use it, and any risks or things that you need to keep in mind when using it as your guiding principle in a search. So Pete, let's start at the start. What is an owner-occupier percentage?

[00:02:17] Pete: So in simple terms, it's the percentage of people who live in the suburb who own their own home.

[00:02:21] Imti: Mm-hmm. So is that per person? Is it per property? How does that work?

[00:02:27] Pete: Yeah, it's just per property.

[00:02:29] Imti: Mm-hmm. So if you've got 100 properties in an area, might be 70 houses, 30 units, but 100 all up, and there's 50 owned by investors and 50 owned by owner-occupiers, that's a 50/50 split?

[00:02:42] Pete: Yep, that's it.

Yep.

[00:02:43] Imti: So that seems really, really simple, and for most people listening to this, they would be like, " Why is that so important? Why is a number so simple that's just basically who lives in what type of property so important?"

For you, why is owner-occupier percentage so important?

[00:03:03] Pete: it tells us who wants to live there.

[00:03:05] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:05] Pete: And again, that's keeping it really simple, but if you've got 90%

owner-occupiers in the area, it means that 90% of people are willing

to pay a good price to live in that suburb.

[00:03:15] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:15] Pete: And that is what

I do believe drives

capital growth long term, because the more people you have in the suburb that wanna live there, the more appealing it becomes, the longer it takes them to sell, and I guess the supply in those areas are quite

tight as well.

[00:03:30] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:30] Pete: So there's not like there's 10 properties coming up every week. When a property comes up in these high owner-occupied areas, people are fighting for it.

[00:03:36] Imti: Yeah. And I think that's the important thing, right? When we were having this discussion when we both landed on owner-occupier percentage being so important.. Properties with a high owner-occupier percentage always have demand, no matter what the market's doing. Because generally when people move into those areas, there is the schools, there are the infrastructures, the government spending's there, the population's there.

[00:03:59] Pete: Yeah.

[00:03:59] Imti: The 150 data points that are available everywhere really boil down to the owner-occupier percentage. And if the market's getting quiet, a tightly held owner-occupier property in an area with great schools, great infrastructure, there's always gonna be 10, 20 people at that open home, no matter what.

[00:04:17] Pete: Yeah. Yep. If we flip it on its head and look at a higher rent ratio-

[00:04:21] Imti: Mm-hmm ...

[00:04:22] Pete: during these bad times that we're sustaining now, a lot of investors are the ones to sell first.

[00:04:29] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:29] Pete: So they might've got in, they made their money, or they've got in and they shouldn't have. The economy goes to shit, they look to sell- and then there's a bit of an influx of properties coming to market at the same time-

[00:04:38] Imti: Mm-hmm ...

[00:04:39] Pete: which then pushes property prices down. So you can almost look at owner-occupier levels as a layer of risk management.

[00:04:44] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:45] Pete: Because the higher the level, the lower the risk of an influx of supply coming and your property prices falling.

[00:04:51] Imti: The interesting thing there is that people can get caught up in cashflow, or chasing a hotspot, for example, and some hotspots have done really well in the last couple years, but they had really low owner-occupier rates. And so we saw investors actually inflating the prices in those markets, right?

[00:05:11] Pete: Yeah, that's right, yeah.

[00:05:12] Imti: What do you think's gonna happen now that has tapered off a little bit? Do you think those prices are gonna continue to increase, or do you think that the owner-occupier percentage patches are just gonna outperform them over time?

[00:05:25] Pete: Over time they will outperform. Now what we're seeing in the lower owner-occupier areas is where properties are coming to market, they're not really selling, prices are softening, and often what you see is in these areas the first markets to soften when there is a downturn or a stable period are those low owner oc areas. But that's the risk, and we'll go through the risk of picking these areas later on, but that's the risk that you take when you're buying in those areas.

[00:05:50] Imti: Well, let's jump into it now.

[00:05:51] Pete: Mm.

[00:05:51] Imti: We're gonna cover where to find owner-occupier percentages, which for anyone listening, very, very simple actually- and how to use it. But let's talk about the risks. If you- rely on it too much, what could go wrong?

[00:06:05] Pete: So let's say you are looking at the highest owner-occupier area. These areas often have really low rental yields, so the rent is not great, so the cashflow is not great, and you're probably not buying the best type of property either. You are buying an older property-

[00:06:19] Imti: Yeah

[00:06:19] Pete: ... 'cause they are established areas.

[00:06:21] Imti: But even then, even if you're buying at a cheaper purchase price, the rental yields usually still don't stack up, right?

[00:06:27] Pete: No.

[00:06:27] Imti: Yeah.

[00:06:28] Pete: No, they don't. Not compared to the lower owner oc areas.

[00:06:30] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:30] Pete: They just don't. So if cashflow's a problem or you don't want high maintenance, then these areas may not stack up.

[00:06:36] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:36] Pete: Because there's no point holding a property that you can't afford to hold.

[00:06:39] Imti: Yeah. But that potentially is what makes it really appealing for the first home buyer who's worried about property prices and almost wants to have both sides of the fence, right?

[00:06:50] Pete: Yeah.

[00:06:50] Imti: They wanna buy their first home, but they want it to perform as an investment in the future.

[00:06:54] Pete: Yeah.

[00:06:54] Imti: Does it almost create the perfect recipe for them to go after a property like that?

[00:06:59] Pete: Yeah, 100%, and we talked about it before as well. When you look at the radius of first home buyers that are looking to buy, it's often within a 5, kilometer radius.

[00:07:06] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:07] Pete: An easy way to look at the owner-occupier levels is to check out all those areas and see which one is highest. And you are kind of mitigating your risk because you might get the best of both worlds where it's gonna be a great investment on one side, but also you're mitigating the risk of prices softening-

[00:07:21] Imti: Mm

[00:07:21] Pete: ...and all that kind of stuff in the future too. So for a first-time buyer, it's a great way to make sure you're getting into a market that's relatively safe.

[00:07:28] Imti: Yeah. The other thing that's important there around that risk of cash flow is owner-occupier percentage was what drove very first purchase over a decade ago, and what actually happened over time was that the rental yield increased compared to my purchase price at almost a disproportionate amount compared to the market. Is that something that would be normal in an area with high owner-occupier percentage, that, let's say you eat on a yield that's not great at the start, but over time that yield actually rebuilds and increases?

[00:08:04] Pete: Yeah, definitely because in these areas, because there's such a high level of owner-occupiers, the vacancy rates are really low.

[00:08:09] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:10] Pete: So there's no rentals in these areas.

[00:08:11] Imti: Yeah.

[00:08:11] Pete: So rental prices do tend to outperform in these areas, but again, if you can afford to hold it over that period, it makes sense. But as a first-time home buyer, you gotta pay your mortgage. So it's a great way to do it.

[00:08:21] Imti: And that's the importance of being able to take a long-term view on it. Most people will get drawn in by cashflow and capital growth is where the win happens in property. We've spoken about it before, but property, notoriously horrible for cashflow.

[00:08:34] Pete: Yeah.

[00:08:35] Imti: Despite what-

[00:08:35] Pete: it's not great ...

[00:08:36] Imti: everything will tell you. But over time, these properties almost create that cashflow because there's no vacancies.

[00:08:45] Pete: Yep, you just gotta have that long-term view. Which a lot of first-time investors don't have.

[00:08:49] Imti: Yeah.

[00:08:49] Pete: And that's why this does suit the first-time home buyer. Cause you're forced to have the long-term view.

[00:08:53] Imti: Yeah, 'cause you're gonna live there. And drilling it down even more is that if it's your first home, you've got the benefits of, you can get stamp duty waivers, it's CGT exempt, all of these things. All of these benefits just stack on top of each other-

[00:09:06] Pete: Yeah

... Can mitigate the risk.

[00:09:08] Imti: Yeah.

[00:09:08] Pete: Layering it, yeah.

[00:09:09] Imti: Over time, that compounding will stack up, and for me personally, owner-occupier percentage is almost the completed dish. If population and infrastructure spend and all of these 150 data points were ingredients in a recipe, for me, owner-occupier percentage is the complete product because so many roads lead home to that. When we're talking about where to find it, i'm gonna give you a really practical example in terms of what to do and where to look for it, you just go to Domain, domain.com.au. In their research section, they've got a suburb research tab, you just go up the top, click it, whack in the suburb that you're looking at, and it'll give you a suburb demographic profile. If the population isn't high enough, it won't display owner-occupier rent percentage. That probably tells you straight away not to buy there 'cause the population's not there.

[00:10:04] Pete: It could also be, actually, I'll just chime in on that,

This is where the data gets a bit not great- ...sometimes

[00:10:10] Imti: Mm

[00:10:10] Pete: because these outer suburbs where we wouldn't recommend to buy, where there's no infrastructure at all, obviously it's first home buyers buying this stuff.

[00:10:16] Imti: Yep.

[00:10:16] Pete: So it can be skewed, but if it says what you've just said, that's a really good indicator to probably not rely on that metric for that type of suburb.

[00:10:24] Imti: Exactly right. Yeah. ' Cause the population won't be there, and it actually just won't generate.

[00:10:28] Pete: Yeah.

[00:10:28] Imti: And so go back there, put in your suburb. If the population's there, the data will just populate, and it'll give you owner-occupier percentage and investor/renter percentage. For me, the benchmark would be obviously as high as possible, but realistically 80%, 75%, 70% would be kind of the gold standard for me if I was using that. Would you agree?

[00:10:54] Pete: Yeah. I think more than 70% is a really good number.

[00:10:57] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:57] Pete: Comes down to budget, asset type, but yeah, 70% solid.

[00:11:00] Imti: Well yeah, let's talk about asset type because in terms of utilising that data, we spoke earlier about prices in these areas being high, cashflow in these areas being poor, vacancy not being great. So really hard to get to, if we were to- simplify it. Very, very hard markets to get into. That would put off most first-time investors or first home buyers because of the cashflow component. How would you structure a search if you're prioritising owner-occupier percentage, and let's say no emotions were involved. You're a robot, you didn't care where you bought, but owner-occupier percentage was how you wanted to dictate the search. What would your steps be if, let's say, at 80% I couldn't afford a home that's in an owner-occupier pocket.

[00:11:50] Pete: Yeah. So you definitely have to remove the property type filter.

[00:11:54] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:54] Pete: You normally have a filter with houses, apartments, units, townhouses, all that. You remove that because of no emotion at all-

[00:12:00] Imti: Mm-hmm ...

[00:12:00] Pete: and we don't care. You then, I guess, have to keep the owner-occupier levels relatively high, and just filter on budget.

[00:12:07] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:08] Pete: I'd probably look at the budget side of things first, just to see what is available. If nothing's coming up within your budget, then you're gonna have to start reducing that owner-occupier level a little bit.

[00:12:16] Imti: Yeah.

[00:12:17] Pete: So you might start at 80% and then reduce it to 75, 70, and you start to get a really good list.

[00:12:22] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:23] Pete: But then even at that, you might find a owner-occupier level of 65%, but within this particular pocket of the suburb, it's really, really good.

[00:12:31] Imti: Yeah.

[00:12:32] Pete: It might be pretty much 100% owner occupied. There's always streets and pockets within suburbs, but that's how I'd tackle it. I'd be looking at the budget. If nothing comes up, then I'd be lowering that owner occupier by probably 5%.

[00:12:43] Imti: Yeah. That's where the value of a really great BA comes in, right? Is the street level stuff.

[00:12:47] Pete: Yeah.

[00:12:47] Imti: If you're having a conversation with a buyer's agent, or you're thinking of using one and they don't talk about street level, then it's probably a red flag-

[00:12:55] Pete: Yeah

[00:12:55] Imti: ... just walk away, because they're just pulling bare data and just throwing a dart at a dartboard and hoping

[00:13:01] Pete: Yeah

[00:13:01] Imti: it will work.

[00:13:02] Pete: just quickly, there's 70% owner-occupier suburbs with pockets of 30% social housing-

[00:13:07] Imti: Mm-hmm ...

[00:13:07] Pete: in that suburb. So, just going alone on owner oc' can be a bit dangerous. But if you know what you're doing, and you're on the ground looking, you should be able to mitigate that risk.

[00:13:15] Imti: Hmm. But that's the thing, even in those situations, the social housing percentage if someone was filtering by that, that might put them off.

[00:13:22] Pete: Yeah.

[00:13:23] Imti: Whereas I can name many suburbs off the top of my head that have a high social housing percentage and a high owner-occupier percentage-

[00:13:31] Pete: Yep.

[00:13:31] Imti: and the growth there is incredible-

[00:13:32] Pete: Yep.

[00:13:33] Imti: Because they're still highly desirable places that people wanna live-

[00:13:37] Pete: Mm-hmm ...

[00:13:37] Imti: and it's older social housing that was built before that area gentrified.

[00:13:42] Pete: Yeah. And it's normally consolidated into one or two pockets in the suburb as well.

[00:13:46] Imti: And even then even if you had the opportunity to buy in those pockets, you would still strongly consider it, 'cause the rest of the area would just drag it up.

[00:13:54] Pete: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's a fair point, because times change too, these-

[00:13:57] Imti: Mm-hmm

[00:13:57] Pete: ... old social housing pockets are changing.

[00:13:59] Imti: Yeah.

[00:14:00] Pete: And they're either getting knocked down, rebuilt with better quality social housing tenants, or they're just selling them off to the public.

[00:14:05] Imti: Yeah. the way that you stepped through that was actually really good, where- someone listening to this might be like, "Wait, you want me to look at a unit or a townhouse you don't want me to buy a house?"

[00:14:14] Pete: Mm.

[00:14:14] Imti: And the important caveat that I'll put on that is we did do a breakdown on apartments a few episodes ago. This doesn't take away from that. So it's a full checklist on what to look at if you're contemplating buying an apartment. Listen to that and this together.

[00:14:30] Pete: That was my next thing. We could filter and it could be great, and then all you can buy is an apartment in a 50 story-

[00:14:35] Imti: A high-rise

[00:14:36] Pete: ... yeah, a high-rise or something like that

[00:14:37] Imti: we'd just tell you not to touch ever.

[00:14:37] Pete: Yeah. Exactly. Yep. That's why there's so many different layers to it.

[00:14:40] Imti: Yep. using those two together is actually a really powerful combination for a first home buyer who's looking to buy their own property-

[00:14:46] Pete: Mm

[00:14:46] Imti: that they want to perform well. We're having this little debate before we started recording where we were talking about buying in the regions, for example, 10 years ago, versus buying in a high owner-occupier percentage pocket close to a CBD at the same price point, and that the unit, if it was the right unit, potentially would outperform-

[00:15:09] Pete: Mm

[00:15:10] Imti: the house that's in the regions on a big block that ticks all the right investment boxes purely because the owner-occupier demand is so high in those inner pockets, right?

[00:15:20] Pete: Yeah. the more and more that time's gone on, I have noticed that owner-occupiers have been happy to kinda go out-

[00:15:25] Imti: Mm

[00:15:25] Pete: but now they all seem to be wanting to come back in.

[00:15:27] Imti: Yep.

[00:15:28] Pete: And even their kids are wanting to stay close as well. So it's definitely a, from when we started investing eight, nine years ago-

[00:15:33] Imti: Mm

[00:15:34] Pete: ... I feel like it was very different.

[00:15:35] Imti: Yeah.

[00:15:35] Pete: Like back then people were happy to go further out.

[00:15:38] Imti: Yeah.

[00:15:38] Pete: But now it seems to have shifted back.

[00:15:40] Imti: We'll go 30, 40 minutes out and we'll commute in ... ''

[00:15:42] Pete: cause we're gonna get a house on a big block of land.

[00:15:43] Imti: Yep.

[00:15:44] Pete: That was what everyone was happy with. When we were investing back then, that was impacting our decision-making too.

[00:15:49] Imti: Mm-hmm. But it was almost a, bias on us, right?

[00:15:52] Pete: Oh, yeah. Definitely,

[00:15:52] Imti: 'Cause we would've fallen down the rabbit hole of like, house, regions, affordable-

[00:15:56] Pete: Mm

[00:15:56] Imti: ... big block, all that stuff. But stripping back the numbers and looking at them and you go, for the same money I could have gotten a townhouse in an area with a high owner-occupier percentage-

[00:16:07] Pete: Mm

[00:16:07] Imti: better cashflow, better capital growth, or exactly the same capital growth, but much lower holding costs over time.

[00:16:16] Pete: Yeah.

[00:16:16] Imti: No repairs, no tenant turnover, low maintenance to hold.

Mm.

And just performed really, really well. That's where Being able to look at different security types and prioritising those owner-occupier pockets is actually more powerful than prioritising just a house or just land

[00:16:34] Pete: Yeah, I tend to agree now. It's definitely not the opinion I would've had a couple of years ago.

[00:16:39] Imti: Hmm.

[00:16:40] Pete: Uh, but again, it comes with risks on both sides, though, because a lot of the clients that we work with, they don't want to deal with stratas.

[00:16:45] Imti: Yes.

[00:16:46] Pete: They don't wanna be told what they can and can't do with the property.

[00:16:48] Imti: Mm.

[00:16:49] Pete: Which, as a first-time investor, I get.

[00:16:51] Imti: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:51] Pete: If I was a first-time investor today, I still don't know if I'd be comfortable going straight into a unit.

I'm okay with it now.

[00:16:57] Imti: Mm.

[00:16:57] Pete: But the thought of being told what I can and can't do, and all the headaches that can come with the strata, ' cause it's not always easy.

[00:17:03] Imti: No.

[00:17:03] Pete: Especially when you've got a really poor strata group. It's a hard decision. But it's one that I think is worth considering if you're open to it.

[00:17:10] Imti: And I think that's where the value in the apartment breakdown that we did before

[00:17:13] Pete: Mm

[00:17:14] Imti: ...is massive, but also it's the emotions, right? It is,

[00:17:17] Pete: yeah.

[00:17:17] Imti: and that's why at the top, we outlined, put us on a desert island, take all of our emotions away, strip away all the data, what would we pick as the one thing that we would bet on to get growth? It being owner-occupier percentage. But it doesn't make that decision any easier when you're actually making the purchase yourself.

[00:17:36] Pete: Yep. And it often can lead to people not making a decision.

[00:17:39] Imti: Yep.

[00:17:40] Pete: Because a lot of people are like, "Well, if I'm not buying a house, then I'm not gonna buy at all."

[00:17:42] Imti: Yep.

[00:17:43] Pete: That's fine. Then you should definitely try and buy a house, and you've gotta compromise on the owner-occupier levels and the location and you're still gonna do relatively well if you get it right.

[00:17:50] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:50] Pete: But you've just gotta make the decision.

[00:17:52] Imti: Mm.

[00:17:52] Pete: So a decision is better than no decision. I'm a big believer in that, even if it's a decision to not invest.

[00:17:57] Imti: Yeah, still But a decision-

[00:17:58] Pete: Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:58] Imti: It's a deliberate decision, right?

[00:17:59] Pete: Yeah. Yes, it needs to be deliberate, but if you've got the means to do it, and you can buy in a decent location, and it's a house, then it will still likely perform.

[00:18:06] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:06] Pete: You've just gotta get it right. It's just a higher risk, these days-

[00:18:09] Imti: Yeah ...

[00:18:09] Pete: of getting it wrong.

[00:18:10] Imti: 100%.

[00:18:10] Pete: Yeah.

[00:18:10] Imti: And then when you're talking about first home buyers in particular, they've decided they're going to buy. So then for them it's, where do we put our money where we at least think that it's gonna perform well? we're big believers in that you have to make a compromise somewhere. As a first home buyer, you're not gonna find, like, this unicorn property that's gonna outperform a property in the perfect location at the same budget. But as a general guiding principle, most people will look within a half an hour of where they're currently living.

[00:18:41] Pete: Hmm.

[00:18:42] Imti: Give or take.

[00:18:42] Pete: Yeah.

[00:18:42] Imti: Now at least you can pull up the suburbs and go, "Okay, well, out of all of these suburbs in the half an hour or an hour that I'm happy to travel in, what has the highest owner-occupier percentage? Okay, that will probably drag me forward- within the confines of the decision that I'm trying to make. And so then I don't accidentally end up two suburbs over because of a $20,000 price difference because over time, that $20,000 price difference is just gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger.

[00:19:12] Pete: Yep, I agree.

[00:19:14] Imti: Wanted to keep this one quick and simple today. We didn't wanna overload it or, add too much technical complexity to it, because I think there's already too much of that in the space at the moment. You've got 15,000 suburbs, 150 data points, social media telling you that there's a new top 10 suburbs every two weeks that you need to know about. And we wanted to bring it down to just first principles thinking. What is the one thing that can guide a lot of your search, especially if you're looking to buy an owner-occupier property as your first home, and you want it to perform as an investment long term? If you're looking at borderless investing and things like that, that's when street level becomes a lot more important. And to me, that's where the value of a buyer's agent really shows itself, is that street level analysis, and being able to understand that at a much deeper level. Hopefully, if you've listened to this, it's made you feel a little bit calmer about your search that you don't need to know absolutely everything. You don't need to be checking all these databases and ending up in analysis paralysis. Because to your point, Pete, not making the decision and delaying is often what hamstrings people-

[00:20:28] Pete: Yeah ...

[00:20:29] Imti: and puts them behind, right?

[00:20:31] Pete: Yep. And it frustrates people. I've been there.

[00:20:33] Imti: Mm.

[00:20:33] Pete: Like you've been there. It frustrates you. It does impact your day-to-day as well.

[00:20:36] Imti: Yeah.

[00:20:36] Pete: Yeah. '

[00:20:37] Imti: Cause you're just like, "What do I do? Am I making the right decision?"

[00:20:40] Pete: Mm. ""

[00:20:40] Imti: Oh, there's another data point that I haven't checked yet. Is that gonna change something?" But bringing it down to first principles thinking, owner-occupier percentage for both of us was the biggest lever. Strip away all the complexity and all the noise, and bring it down to simplicity of, do people wanna live there long term? And is the next person who's gonna buy the property someone who also wants to live there long term? So Pete, do you wanna add anything before we close up?

[00:21:07] Pete: The only thing I'd wanna touch on a little bit more is the cashflow side of things. And look, a lot of people, if they're gonna go out and do this way of searching, you're gonna see the rental yields aren't great.

[00:21:16] Speaker: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:16] Pete: And you're gonna get concerned that the out of pocket's gonna be quite a lot.

We could be talking... comparing suburbs from a lower owner-occupier level to a higher owner-occupier level, we could be talking 100 bucks a week.

[00:21:25] Imti: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:25] Pete: 150 bucks a week for a similar purchase price as well.

[00:21:28] Imti: Yeah.

[00:21:28] Pete: just not to be too detracted by that, because as we've talked about, the rents in these areas will rise quicker because people wanna live there, there's low vacancies.

[00:21:36] Imti: Yep.

[00:21:36] Pete: But you have to be able to stomach that outflow. So you do need to make sure you're running the numbers. If you think you can stomach it, I'd be definitely gearing towards that higher owner-occupier ratio areas. But if not, then that's when you gotta start adjusting the lever.

[00:21:48] Imti: Yeah, 100%. for me, the key points would be, be open to different types of property. Don't dismiss the townhouse, don't dismiss the unit in a low set building doesn't seem sexy, but will perform really well over the long term. And just to double down on your rent point, using my own personal example. My core purchase that everything kinda hinges around, it was probably yielding at about 3 to 3.5% when I purchased it. After holding onto it and getting the capital growth uplift, it's probably yielding at about 6.5% now. Purely just driven by lack of supply, high owner-occupier percentage, and it just being somewhere that people wanna live.

[00:22:34] Pete: Yeah. That 6% is what everyone's chasing now, and you can't find it.

[00:22:37] Imti: Yeah. And if you do, that 6% isn't gonna grow anyway, 'cause it's-

[00:22:41] Pete: Yeah, especially if it's a house.

[00:22:43] Imti: Yes. But conversation for another day. Again, just to bring us to a close, owner-occupier percentage, just hammer it and you'll end up in the right direction. Yeah. Cool.